1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,740
It's December 1965.

2
00:00:09,740 --> 00:00:16,400
Residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania have just heard that a strange object has landed in the woods outside of town.

3
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:23,900
So they are heading to the crash site.

4
00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:29,960
They make their way carefully into the woods and are soon drawn to a glowing light emanating from the object.

5
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,960
Up close it looks like a bronze colored bell.

6
00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,640
They see inscriptions on the object that looked like hieroglyphics.

7
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:44,960
A few hours later, the army seals off the woods claiming that it is a matter of national security.

8
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,560
Where did the object come from?

9
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,560
Could it be an alien spacecraft?

10
00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:57,160
Buy these yourself!

11
00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:47,700
In UFO circles, some stories have stirred such a craze that they have become part of

12
00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:50,380
the popular culture.

13
00:01:50,380 --> 00:01:55,740
Which is the case for the story of the flying saucer that crashed near Roswell, New Mexico.

14
00:01:55,740 --> 00:02:01,620
If it had not been for the crash, this town of 50,000 would never have become so well known.

15
00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:06,260
Tourists come from all over to visit Flying Saucer Central.

16
00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:11,020
Every July, the town celebrates the anniversary of what some people consider to be the event

17
00:02:11,020 --> 00:02:16,620
of the century.

18
00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:23,340
In early July 1947, a local rancher, Mac Brazo, discovered a lot of strange debris on his

19
00:02:23,340 --> 00:02:28,420
property, varying from ultralight aluminum paper to small pieces of what looked like

20
00:02:28,420 --> 00:02:31,500
balsam wood.

21
00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:36,660
A few days later, he told the town sheriff, George Wilcox, who advised the military base

22
00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:42,460
outside of Roswell, headquarters of the 509th Bomb Squadron, the only unit in the world

23
00:02:42,460 --> 00:02:44,380
with an atom bomb.

24
00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:51,020
That same day, Major Jesse Marcell and Captain Sheridan Cavett showed up to recover the debris.

25
00:02:51,020 --> 00:02:56,340
A few hours later, Colonel Blanchard, commander of the Roswell base, issued a press release,

26
00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:59,660
stating that they had captured a flying saucer.

27
00:02:59,660 --> 00:03:04,220
But once the debris had been shipped off to the military base in Fort Worth, Texas, authorities

28
00:03:04,220 --> 00:03:06,460
retracted that statement.

29
00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:11,060
General Roger Ramey, commander of the 8th Air Force, stated that the debris found in

30
00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:14,660
Roswell was nothing more than the remnants of a weather balloon.

31
00:03:14,660 --> 00:03:18,540
The Roswell case was closed, at least for now.

32
00:03:18,540 --> 00:03:29,100
Well, according to the story, something fell to the ground near Roswell in July 1947.

33
00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:33,540
Roswell was the only American nuclear base at the time, and it was believed that the

34
00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:36,500
object was a flying saucer.

35
00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:41,380
The news was announced by the media following a press release issued by the military base.

36
00:03:41,380 --> 00:03:46,940
Then the whole thing was later denied by the US Army.

37
00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:49,500
They claimed that an error had been made.

38
00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:54,860
The object was nothing more than a weather balloon, not one of those flying saucers that

39
00:03:54,860 --> 00:04:01,260
the media had been talking about for two weeks, following a sighting by Kenneth Arnold.

40
00:04:01,900 --> 00:04:08,340
The story died down until the end of the 1970s, when one of the key witnesses came forward,

41
00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:14,980
a major Jesse Marcell, who had been to the Brazile branch to recover the wreckage from

42
00:04:14,980 --> 00:04:18,820
the flying saucer.

43
00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:25,820
He said that the whole story was true, that they really had recovered an alien spaceship

44
00:04:25,860 --> 00:04:33,860
and Roswell, and that the US Army had been covering up the truth for 30 years.

45
00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:40,940
After that, other witnesses came forward, who were more or less credible.

46
00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:46,900
The story became known nationally, then internationally.

47
00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:51,580
And now, it has become somewhat of a myth.

48
00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:58,580
Now, it's hard to tell what's fact and what's fiction, since so many false statements have

49
00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:00,580
been added to the mix.

50
00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:13,420
The statements made years later describe a whole different story than what was originally

51
00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:17,060
told to the press.

52
00:05:17,060 --> 00:05:23,940
According to the new version, two flying saucers crashed in the Roswell Desert in 1947.

53
00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:28,780
One exploded in the sky over the Brazile Ranch, where all the debris was found.

54
00:05:28,780 --> 00:05:34,260
Then the second one landed in the plains of St. Augustine.

55
00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:39,300
Or perhaps it was the same object that was damaged while over the Brazile Ranch, then

56
00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:42,980
rose again to continue on its westward path.

57
00:05:42,980 --> 00:05:49,100
This second crash site, authorities supposedly recovered a spaceship that was nearly intact,

58
00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:52,020
as well as four to six humanoid bodies.

59
00:05:52,020 --> 00:05:56,620
There seemed to be two parts to the Roswell story.

60
00:05:56,620 --> 00:06:01,500
On one hand, there were statements made about the debris found at the Brazile Ranch, primarily

61
00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:06,860
made by first-hand witnesses and at times confirmed in official documents.

62
00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:11,980
For instance, Major Jesse Marcell gave an interview in the late 1970s, saying that the

63
00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:15,020
remnants could not be torn or burned.

64
00:06:15,020 --> 00:06:20,060
If crumpled in a ball, they would spring back to their original shape, like mylar.

65
00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:24,380
Marcell also explained that before being shown to the press, the real debris was replaced

66
00:06:24,380 --> 00:06:27,140
by remnants of a weather balloon.

67
00:06:27,140 --> 00:06:32,340
On the other hand, there were statements made about recovering a spaceship and its occupants.

68
00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:38,260
Those were basically second and third-hand accounts.

69
00:06:38,260 --> 00:06:44,460
The most famous crash retrieval incident is the Roswell incident of 1948, 1947, and that

70
00:06:44,460 --> 00:06:48,420
happened just a few weeks after the Kenneth Arnold sighting, which kind of christened

71
00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:50,700
flying saucers as a special phenomenon.

72
00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:55,780
Broadly speaking, what happened, what certainly happened, is that an object, probably a disk-shaped

73
00:06:55,780 --> 00:07:04,300
object, crashed in the deserts in New Mexico, and in fact, quite near the highly secret

74
00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:08,900
work that was going on developing the atomic bomb and developing the Almagordo projects

75
00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,140
and so on, White Sands, all in that area.

76
00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:18,420
And certainly, a military unit was sent out to retrieve that disk, and that military unit

77
00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:23,060
came from at that time the only atomic bomb wing in the world, the 509th bomb wing.

78
00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:27,100
Now when they retrieved it and brought it back, there was a big splash in the papers

79
00:07:27,100 --> 00:07:34,060
because a high official there actually released the information that a disk had been recovered.

80
00:07:34,060 --> 00:07:37,700
And then they were forced to retract that and say that it wasn't anything so.

81
00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:42,940
Now that certainly happened, but that is not the same as saying flying saucers with a lot

82
00:07:42,940 --> 00:07:44,780
of little aliens.

83
00:07:44,780 --> 00:07:50,340
What then happened was that there was certainly a lot of mischief going on, and we do know

84
00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:54,700
that it was quite frequent with these sort of emerging radio and TV stations in America.

85
00:07:54,700 --> 00:07:58,700
They sort of hoax stories about disks with little bodies and all the rest of it.

86
00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:00,980
That was certainly a hoax.

87
00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:06,460
Whether Roswell had real little aliens recovered or whether it was mixed up with the hoax is

88
00:08:06,460 --> 00:08:09,100
really difficult to determine now.

89
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:14,580
But when we look at the history of the way it came out, Roswell was actually not particularly

90
00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:20,380
– no one was interested in Roswell right from 1947, virtually to 1973 when Stanton Friedman

91
00:08:20,380 --> 00:08:23,660
started to actually bring out a lot of information about this.

92
00:08:23,660 --> 00:08:28,980
And he kind of put the stories together, made a pretty coherent package which was very interesting,

93
00:08:28,980 --> 00:08:33,100
which may have picked up some of the silly stories along with some of the real stories.

94
00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:36,700
So there's a certain amount we do know, a certain amount that's speculated, a certain

95
00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:41,300
amount I feel is pretty doubtful that has been led on in the past few years.

96
00:08:41,300 --> 00:08:46,020
We've become very conspiracy theorists and very exaggerated in our fears and so on.

97
00:08:46,020 --> 00:08:49,620
So I think Roswell is probably not all people would like it to be, but it's certainly

98
00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:54,100
one of the real crash retrievals of something anyway in history.

99
00:08:54,100 --> 00:09:01,740
I would say that there are two stories related to Roswell.

100
00:09:01,740 --> 00:09:07,540
One is associated with the first alleged crash site visited by Jesse Marcelle, where they

101
00:09:07,540 --> 00:09:12,620
found strange material with properties that were extraordinary for that time period, such

102
00:09:12,620 --> 00:09:18,140
as aluminum paper that could not be torn, which would return to its original state after

103
00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:20,940
being crumpled in a ball.

104
00:09:20,940 --> 00:09:25,180
There were several witnesses, including Marc Brazell, the rancher who found the debris,

105
00:09:25,180 --> 00:09:30,380
Jesse Marcelle who recovered the debris, his wife and son, to whom he showed the wreckage

106
00:09:30,380 --> 00:09:37,060
before going to the base, as well as the people at the base and the sheriff of Roswell.

107
00:09:37,060 --> 00:09:41,620
Then there's the second story, which might be true, but which is only supported by second

108
00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:45,940
hand accounts or unreliable witnesses.

109
00:09:45,940 --> 00:09:52,300
According to this story, there was an initial crash, and then, after hitting the ground

110
00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:58,220
once, the spaceship allegedly flew further and crashed again.

111
00:09:58,220 --> 00:10:04,220
And that's where they found the bodies in the ship.

112
00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:09,940
That's when the Roswell cover-up began, according to witnesses.

113
00:10:09,940 --> 00:10:16,220
The Roswell crash of 1947, something that perhaps the official public world may never

114
00:10:16,220 --> 00:10:18,620
truly know.

115
00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:28,460
It is my suspicion that something not of America's technology crashed, not Soviet, you could do

116
00:10:28,460 --> 00:10:30,060
the math.

117
00:10:30,060 --> 00:10:33,860
I think that it would be something that we might call extraterrestrial, that crash at

118
00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:38,540
Roswell, crash or landed, whatever, something that the American military recovered.

119
00:10:38,540 --> 00:10:42,500
I do believe that that is the least crazy scenario.

120
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:50,540
The mogul explanation is weak, threadbare, and really nothing to hang your hat on.

121
00:10:50,540 --> 00:10:55,580
There is, on the other hand, a great deal of testimony from witnesses, not all of whom

122
00:10:55,580 --> 00:11:04,260
are crazy, not all of whom are fabricators, in my view, who describe things about that

123
00:11:04,260 --> 00:11:05,900
make me think it was extraterrestrial.

124
00:11:05,900 --> 00:11:09,340
For example, the testimony of General Arthur Exxon.

125
00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:13,180
Exxon at the time was an officer at Wright Airfield in Ohio.

126
00:11:13,180 --> 00:11:19,020
Exxon did not ever see wreckage, did not ever see dead bodies, but Exxon, who later became

127
00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:24,620
the commander of Wright-Pattison Air Force Base, did say that immediately after the Roswell

128
00:11:24,620 --> 00:11:33,140
event he heard rumors at Wright Airfield of alien bodies and heard reports from people

129
00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:40,180
who analyzed the material which went to Wright-Pattison Air Force Base that described it as extraordinary.

130
00:11:40,180 --> 00:11:46,860
In other words, why would a mogul balloon be tested at Wright-Pattison Air Force Base?

131
00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:47,860
Why?

132
00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:48,860
Why would they be testing this material?

133
00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:51,140
It makes no sense.

134
00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:55,980
The reason I think that an alien craft did crash at Roswell is because I think that there

135
00:11:55,980 --> 00:12:00,980
is sufficient evidence for the rest of the UFO phenomenon both before and after 1947.

136
00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:10,820
In 1994, wanting to know more about the Roswell crash, New Mexico Republican Stephen Schiff

137
00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:15,140
went to see the Air Force, who politely told him that he should check with the National

138
00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:17,700
Archives Office.

139
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:25,340
At the National Archives, he was told that he should speak to the Air Force for information

140
00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:27,060
about Roswell.

141
00:12:27,060 --> 00:12:31,900
Tired of being treated like a ping-pong ball, Schiff went to the General Accounting Office,

142
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:36,780
a sort of ombudsman for U.S. politicians who instructed the Air Force to allow Schiff

143
00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:39,380
access to its archives.

144
00:12:39,380 --> 00:12:44,900
In July 1995, the GAO published its investigation report.

145
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:49,500
Other than stating that several documents had been lost or destroyed, the report mentioned

146
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:55,140
that certain documents had been found relating to secret projects that might shed light on

147
00:12:55,140 --> 00:12:56,340
the Roswell mystery.

148
00:12:56,780 --> 00:13:03,980
When the Air Force had to reopen its files, I don't think they really knew what they would

149
00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:11,740
find, because it had been so long that no one really remembered anymore.

150
00:13:11,740 --> 00:13:16,580
They dug into the files and discovered what UFO researchers already knew.

151
00:13:16,580 --> 00:13:19,060
Something had indeed landed in Roswell.

152
00:13:19,060 --> 00:13:23,220
It wasn't just a tail or a rumor.

153
00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:27,460
The question was, what exactly was it that fell?

154
00:13:27,460 --> 00:13:32,860
At the time of the incident, the world was still in the Cold War period, and the state's

155
00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:37,420
number one enemy was not the Martians, it was the Russians.

156
00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:42,500
The military was using every means possible to keep track of what the Russians were doing,

157
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:45,460
especially with respect to the atomic bomb.

158
00:13:45,460 --> 00:13:51,460
The U.S. was leading the arms race at the time, but not for long.

159
00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:56,300
One of the projects designed for this purpose was the launching of sensors into the upper

160
00:13:56,300 --> 00:14:03,860
atmosphere to detect possible atomic bomb explosions by the Russians.

161
00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:08,260
The Roswell incident was supposedly linked to this project.

162
00:14:08,260 --> 00:14:12,500
In my opinion, a project like this would be the most likely explanation for the object

163
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:14,600
that landed in Roswell.

164
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,220
They were launching trains of balloons.

165
00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:22,460
Several weather balloons tied together hundreds of feet long, with measuring instruments attached

166
00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:25,460
at the end.

167
00:14:25,460 --> 00:14:27,980
It was a top secret operation.

168
00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:31,740
The balloons were launched into the upper atmosphere where the instruments would take

169
00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:32,740
their readings.

170
00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:35,960
Then, the balloons would fall into the desert.

171
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:40,220
It seems that what the rancher found on his property was nothing more than remnants of

172
00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:41,860
a train of balloons.

173
00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:47,100
He thought it was wreckage from a spaceship, but he hadn't actually seen a spaceship,

174
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:52,100
pieces of metal in a sort of junk, which he brought back to the Roswell base.

175
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:56,380
The Roswell base was not aware of the balloon train program being carried out by the Alamo

176
00:14:56,380 --> 00:14:57,860
Gordo base.

177
00:14:57,860 --> 00:15:02,820
When they saw the debris, they used the word flying disk, since it was a buzzword at the

178
00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:07,740
time and the story took off from there.

179
00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:13,180
While the GAO was preparing its report, the Air Force decided to publish its own.

180
00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:18,500
The Roswell report was a thousand-page document in which flying saucers came from a strange

181
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:21,580
planet named Mogul.

182
00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:31,820
The first report explained the Roswell crash as the probable wreckage of a type of classified

183
00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:39,220
balloon known as Mogul, which was a real project, which was designed to determine when the Soviet

184
00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:42,500
Union would detonate its own nuclear device.

185
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:48,580
The Roswell report was a highly classified project.

186
00:15:48,580 --> 00:15:54,700
There were Mogul balloon tests in that area, and there were crashes of Mogul balloons.

187
00:15:54,700 --> 00:16:01,500
The Air Force released its report in 1995 that stated its thesis.

188
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:07,340
The Air Force took the lead, publishing its first report in 1994 or 1995, admitting that

189
00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:10,260
they had not told the truth originally.

190
00:16:10,260 --> 00:16:12,660
It had not been a weather balloon.

191
00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:18,340
It had been a large balloon train referred to as Mogul balloons, which were top secret

192
00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:23,060
at the time used to detect Russian atomic explosions.

193
00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:29,180
They had not worked very well, but they were highly secret at the time, and that's why

194
00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:34,020
the army had lied to the press to hide the truth.

195
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:40,180
When the military investigated in 1995, Captain McAndrew, one of the authors of the report,

196
00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:43,660
discovered a program for spying on the Russians.

197
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:48,580
At the time the program was top secret, but in 1995 there was no longer any reason to

198
00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:50,260
keep it secret.

199
00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:55,100
When the Roswell incident resurfaced in the 1980s, they had forgotten about it, and didn't

200
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,660
see any reason to go digging into their archives.

201
00:16:58,660 --> 00:17:02,620
I think that people give the government too much credit, whether it be in the U.S., France,

202
00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:07,420
Canada or some other country, when they think that the government knows everything.

203
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:10,380
They don't remember what they did 30 years ago.

204
00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:15,060
They had to go digging, and what they found is what appears in the thousand-page report.

205
00:17:15,060 --> 00:17:17,220
The report itself isn't that long.

206
00:17:17,220 --> 00:17:24,420
The rest is just appendices and files from that time period that they republished.

207
00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:32,180
So the report was made up of two-thirds of this huge report, is nothing more than technical

208
00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:35,060
data on the Mogul project.

209
00:17:35,060 --> 00:17:40,660
The report gets into the nuts and bolts, everything you could possibly want to know.

210
00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:46,340
After reading that report, you could practically write a thesis on the subject.

211
00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:51,820
This report makes us wonder how the country's top military experts working at the base at

212
00:17:51,820 --> 00:18:02,340
the time could have acted like General Jack Ripper from the movie Dr. Strangelove.

213
00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:07,260
They would have had about as much credibility if we are to believe the report released by

214
00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:10,460
the U.S. Air Force.

215
00:18:10,460 --> 00:18:16,620
The report describes its military as untrustworthy individuals, incapable of recognizing mundane

216
00:18:16,620 --> 00:18:24,980
technology that any farmer would know to be man-made, and not alien in nature.

217
00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:31,380
If we look at the diagrams and photos of the Mogul project, all we see is ordinary material.

218
00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:37,540
The mission itself was secret, but the technology dated back to 1947, and there was nothing

219
00:18:37,540 --> 00:18:41,260
special about it.

220
00:18:41,260 --> 00:18:51,580
So the report really makes its information officers look incompetent.

221
00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:58,460
Then in 1997, with uncharacteristic concern, the U.S. Air Force released a second report

222
00:18:58,460 --> 00:19:02,980
called Roswell Case Closed.

223
00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:07,860
This report made it clear that the Army wanted to put an end to rumors of a spaceship found

224
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:09,380
with bodies in it.

225
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:14,300
A subject that had been overlooked in the 1995 report.

226
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:22,020
In 1997, because the Air Force hadn't dealt with rumors of alien bodies recovered and

227
00:19:22,020 --> 00:19:25,500
so on, issued another report that tried to explain that.

228
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:33,700
And they said that, well, the bodies' stories are probably the result of the testing of

229
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:41,420
parachute air drop testing, in which we would drop these human-sized dummies in the ground

230
00:19:41,420 --> 00:19:45,620
to test air dropping.

231
00:19:45,620 --> 00:19:47,820
Now those tests occurred in the 1950s.

232
00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:49,300
They did not occur in the 1940s.

233
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:56,180
Nevertheless, this was the Air Force explanation.

234
00:19:56,180 --> 00:20:00,340
Since questions were still being asked about alien bodies being discovered, what's the

235
00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:02,980
Army had denied?

236
00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:05,700
They decided to explain it in the second report.

237
00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:10,220
They ended up explaining the second crash.

238
00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:14,660
After having passed off the first crash as nothing more than mogul balloons, they brushed

239
00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:21,780
off the second one saying, well, those people, the witnesses, perhaps they were mistaken.

240
00:20:21,780 --> 00:20:28,100
Those witnesses all seem to have Alzheimer's and cannot recall the exact time of the incidents.

241
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:32,580
They seem to have mixed up things that happened in the test areas around Roswell, New Mexico

242
00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:36,860
between 1947 and 1964.

243
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:40,780
They mentioned ground testing of NASA probes that could have been mistaken for a flying

244
00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:41,780
saucer.

245
00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:46,580
It was the same for the crash test dummies.

246
00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:54,020
They mixed up several things that took place in the 1940s and 1950s.

247
00:20:54,020 --> 00:20:58,740
There were people who served as test subjects to examine the effects of plane and balloon

248
00:20:58,740 --> 00:21:09,780
crashes, victims of real accidents, as seen by the photo of a pilot with a bandaged head.

249
00:21:09,780 --> 00:21:15,380
According to the report, that's why people were so confused at the time.

250
00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:20,100
They were mixed up, and they invented this story of the second crash based on elements

251
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:26,380
that were scattered in time and space.

252
00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:30,940
As far as the Air Force was concerned, the Roswell saga had nothing to do with visitors

253
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:32,780
from outer space.

254
00:21:32,780 --> 00:21:37,580
The alleged crash and recovery of alien bodies was nothing more than a series of military

255
00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:44,780
activities carried out in the Roswell desert between 1947 and 1965, an explanation that

256
00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:49,980
many people find difficult to believe.

257
00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:56,900
I've read the United States Air Force reports on the Roswell incident.

258
00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:02,780
I think one of them entitled the Roswell case closed.

259
00:22:02,780 --> 00:22:07,220
I have to say it looks pretty convincing.

260
00:22:07,220 --> 00:22:17,460
They've clearly made efforts to find as much information as possible about this, and I

261
00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:23,300
think they've done their best to put into the public domain the position as they see

262
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:24,300
it.

263
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,900
Where information is missing, I don't see that there's necessarily anything suspicious

264
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:34,580
about that, because that's the way that governments and large bureaucracies work.

265
00:22:34,580 --> 00:22:40,340
Sometimes I lose a paper that I wrote last week, so I don't blame anyone if documents

266
00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:43,620
that are now over 50 years old are missing.

267
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:51,700
I think it was perhaps unfortunate that there was this attempt to link the Roswell incident

268
00:22:51,700 --> 00:23:00,820
with the crash test dummy tests, because those to me, the times were not even the same, and

269
00:23:00,820 --> 00:23:06,420
it seemed slightly irrelevant to bring that in.

270
00:23:06,420 --> 00:23:12,020
But perhaps they were just trying to address to the best of their ability the allegations

271
00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:14,580
about humanoid bodies.

272
00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:23,740
But I think that part was possibly not directly relevant.

273
00:23:23,740 --> 00:23:29,340
As for the mogul balloons, I think it's pretty easy to come up with objections to that theory.

274
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:34,180
First of all, it doesn't seem very likely that the commander of a military base with

275
00:23:34,180 --> 00:23:39,740
the atom bomb would have mistaken a mogul balloon for a flying saucer, and issued a press

276
00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:43,780
release stating that we have captured a flying disk.

277
00:23:43,780 --> 00:23:52,180
A mogul balloon train consisted of 20 to 25 balloons attached to a cable.

278
00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:57,620
The fact remains that they were balloons, and if I do say so myself, you'd have to be pretty

279
00:23:57,620 --> 00:24:01,220
daft to mistake those balloons for a flying saucer.

280
00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:06,260
And these men were the army's best.

281
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:12,220
Secondly, there is still something strange that has never been properly explained.

282
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:17,340
Having made this error, why would they go and announce it to the press, to the entire

283
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:18,340
world?

284
00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:20,620
That seems odd.

285
00:24:20,620 --> 00:24:25,100
If it's true that Colonel Blanchard issued the release of his own accord, then he should

286
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,660
have been severely disciplined.

287
00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:34,020
On the contrary, he led a very successful career achieving the rank of a four-star general.

288
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:36,500
I have a problem with that.

289
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:41,580
I also have a problem with one of the two people who visited the site of the debris.

290
00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:47,380
We know that Commander Marcel explained that the debris was extraordinary in nature, but

291
00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:50,340
his opinion was disputed.

292
00:24:50,340 --> 00:24:56,860
He was accompanied by Captain Sheridan Cavett, who worked with counter-espionage.

293
00:24:56,860 --> 00:25:00,860
Cavett was interrogated by the Air Force.

294
00:25:00,860 --> 00:25:06,900
There is even a 30-page description of the interrogation in the Air Force's huge report.

295
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:14,700
They tried to convince him to say that he had seen a mogul balloon, but he absolutely refused.

296
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:17,860
He would not admit that this was what he had seen.

297
00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:23,380
He stuck to the story that he had seen a weather balloon with its radar target.

298
00:25:23,380 --> 00:25:27,180
That's another strange thing that doesn't make sense, because if he didn't remember

299
00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:32,300
for sure, he should have gone along with him and said, yes, you're right, that must have

300
00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:35,420
been what I saw, a mogul balloon.

301
00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:39,580
The fact that he refused to say it is very interesting.

302
00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:44,660
Here we have two witnesses who were at the scene, and neither of which admitted to having

303
00:25:44,660 --> 00:25:50,780
seen the mogul balloon that they had supposedly discovered.

304
00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:54,900
The reports about Roswell indicate, I mean, they were basically saying that Roswell, that

305
00:25:54,980 --> 00:25:58,140
what was recovered was not an alien in a flying saucer.

306
00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:01,660
I don't think anyone was shocked that the government weren't going to say anything else.

307
00:26:01,660 --> 00:26:05,540
If they had concluded that, they were either going to lie or keep very quiet.

308
00:26:05,540 --> 00:26:08,220
They said what one would expect them to say.

309
00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:13,340
I actually don't personally, I don't think Roswell was the crash of an alien flying saucer.

310
00:26:13,340 --> 00:26:14,340
Indeed, I'm not.

311
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:17,300
I'm fairly well on record of saying I'm not absolutely sure.

312
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:21,780
That's the explanation to UFOs, and I would like to stress I do believe UFOs are a real

313
00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:24,540
thing, but it don't have to have that explanation.

314
00:26:24,580 --> 00:26:29,300
So I'm not worried about the idea that Roswell was not aliens, etc.

315
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:33,740
I think the government may well have been telling the truth on that degree.

316
00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:39,180
What's important about those reports in 1995, the government released in 1997, also earlier

317
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:44,540
reports, is that they also contained lies, and we know the government lies about UFOs.

318
00:26:44,540 --> 00:26:49,700
I think it lies legitimately, one might say, because it doesn't want to give out information

319
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,340
about its intelligence gathering sources and so on.

320
00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:54,820
I think that's fair enough.

321
00:26:54,820 --> 00:26:59,300
I think it also lies because it's afraid of what the population can do in panic, and

322
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:03,980
it feels that the population will panic on certain information.

323
00:27:03,980 --> 00:27:07,820
They quote awesome wells when he released the story of the Dwarl of the Worlds and everyone

324
00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:11,180
panicked in New York and so on, all that's on there.

325
00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:14,940
I think that governs a lot of the government's actions.

326
00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:20,500
Going back from those reports and Roswell right back to the CIA in 1951, they'd made

327
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:27,260
a very telling comment that they were interested in communication studies of UFOs.

328
00:27:27,260 --> 00:27:30,020
I don't think they meant the communications of flying saucers.

329
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:34,820
I think they meant the way the population deals with these stories and so on.

330
00:27:34,820 --> 00:27:38,740
I think that's been a real governing theme of the government, particularly American

331
00:27:38,740 --> 00:27:43,740
government, over 40 or 50 years, is that they want not exactly to control the population,

332
00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:46,700
but to know that the population is not going to get out of control.

333
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:51,700
So I think that report, which came actually without so much pressure, it wasn't actually

334
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:57,300
pressured to come out, I think it was released partly as a way of kind of population taking

335
00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:59,620
the steam off the population and so on.

336
00:27:59,620 --> 00:28:07,940
The validity of that Air Force explanation, in my view, I view it as very weak.

337
00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:15,100
It's really only possible to argue the Air Force case, frankly, if you ignore essentially

338
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:19,340
the testimony of everyone who claims they've had any knowledge of Roswell.

339
00:28:19,340 --> 00:28:25,700
It's a very highly selective document in terms of the evidence that it uses to make its case.

340
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:30,980
It's surprisingly weak when you look at the actual evidence that the Air Force puts forth.

341
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:38,340
That evidence being that the photograph of the supposed Roswell wreckage that was in

342
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:44,060
the Roswell Daily, the Roswell News, 1947, looks like a mogul balloon.

343
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:45,060
Might have looked.

344
00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:50,780
Of course, that doesn't deal with the accusation of Jesse Marcell that that material wasn't

345
00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:54,820
the material he uncovered.

346
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:59,220
The mogul explanation really rests only on that.

347
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:06,260
The rest of the mogul explanation deals with when the balloon launch might have taken place.

348
00:29:06,260 --> 00:29:11,820
So that it's a very thin read to rest such an argument on.

349
00:29:11,820 --> 00:29:17,060
My feeling is that the Air Force felt a need to deal with this issue because Roswell, by

350
00:29:17,060 --> 00:29:21,700
1995, had become a very significant public relations problem, something that had to be

351
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:25,060
dealt with in some way.

352
00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:26,700
The same thing with the 1997 report.

353
00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:34,260
Although UFO groups accuse the Army of being less than thorough in finding pro-Roswell

354
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:37,860
witnesses, the opposite is also true.

355
00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:42,180
In reading the literature that abounds on the subject, it's amazing to see the questionable

356
00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:48,980
witness reports that seem to have been accepted as credible by UFO researchers.

357
00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:51,300
Let's take Glenn Dennis, for example.

358
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:57,940
In 1947, Dennis was working as an assistant at the Ballard Funeral Home in Roswell.

359
00:29:57,940 --> 00:30:02,620
Early in July, he allegedly received a phone call from the military, asking whether he

360
00:30:02,620 --> 00:30:07,700
had any small body bags, like the ones used to carry children, to which he replied that

361
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:11,020
he did not.

362
00:30:11,020 --> 00:30:16,180
Later that afternoon, he supposedly went to the Roswell Military Base and saw a strange

363
00:30:16,180 --> 00:30:19,660
flying machine mounted on a flatbed truck.

364
00:30:19,660 --> 00:30:24,180
Then the next day, Dennis ran into a nurse from the base who said that she had assisted

365
00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:29,260
in performing an autopsy of an alien the night before.

366
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,860
Everything about this account rings false.

367
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:36,780
If the Army had genuinely found alien bodies, it would never have contacted the assistant

368
00:30:36,780 --> 00:30:41,620
of the Roswell Funeral Home to inquire about body bags.

369
00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:45,500
It would never have allowed a civilian to enter the base while it was carrying out the most

370
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:49,380
extraordinary recovery operation of all time.

371
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:54,140
And it certainly wouldn't have left a flatbed truck loaded with an alien craft out in the

372
00:30:54,140 --> 00:30:58,620
open for all eyes to see.

373
00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:03,460
As for the story about the nurse, it seemed to change each time that Dennis told it.

374
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:08,100
She may have died from cancer or a plane accident, or she may have died in her sleep on a military

375
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:09,780
base in England.

376
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:14,340
Despite all the unlikelihoods in his story, all books written about Roswell seemed to

377
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:17,380
focus on Glenn Dennis' testimony.

378
00:31:17,380 --> 00:31:22,220
And this is just one of dozens of others that are just as questionable.

379
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:26,860
This one only goes to show that it's easier for UFO researchers to find fault with the

380
00:31:26,860 --> 00:31:31,540
Army rather than looking in their own backyard.

381
00:31:31,540 --> 00:31:36,580
As for the physical proof of the Roswell crash, everything from the film of the alien autopsy

382
00:31:36,580 --> 00:31:44,340
to the so-called flying saucer remnants were shown to be a hoax.

383
00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:48,580
The Roswell crash has become so well known that people sometimes tend to think that it's

384
00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:52,020
the only one of its kind, which is not true.

385
00:31:52,020 --> 00:31:55,980
Others similar incidents have occurred since 1947.

386
00:31:55,980 --> 00:32:01,180
For example, in his book Behind the Flying Saucers, published in 1950, Frank Scully

387
00:32:01,180 --> 00:32:07,820
discusses a rumor of a strange craft and its occupants that crashed near Aztec, New Mexico.

388
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:12,420
We now know that Scully's sources were con artists, but that doesn't seem to matter.

389
00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:18,140
The Aztec incident is still part of UFO folklore.

390
00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:22,660
What's up with the Roswell crash is also the report of a crash in Aztec, New Mexico when

391
00:32:22,660 --> 00:32:25,860
another saucer is alleged to have come down.

392
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:30,420
There are three real possibilities about that, or at least three obvious possibilities that

393
00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:31,540
one could list.

394
00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:34,140
One is that it was another saucer that crashed.

395
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:38,940
And if we concede that flying saucers are flying over Mexico and if they can be damaged

396
00:32:38,940 --> 00:32:42,660
in that way, then if there were several on a surveillance, then they could come down

397
00:32:42,660 --> 00:32:43,660
in two places.

398
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:45,420
That's possible.

399
00:32:45,420 --> 00:32:50,100
The second possibility is that it was in fact the same flying saucer and that the second

400
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:54,500
piece of debris is actually part of the damage of the first one, which mostly disintegrated

401
00:32:54,500 --> 00:33:00,060
over New Mexico and part of it may have wobbled on and crashed in Aztec.

402
00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:04,880
The third possibility, and I think frankly it's the strongest one, we know that the Roswell

403
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,700
crash was a real crash of something real, whatever it may be.

404
00:33:08,700 --> 00:33:14,700
I should say the listening disc is the favourite possibility, an actual huge disc shaped thing,

405
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:19,300
which in 1947 was used to be carried high into the high atmosphere, which could sort

406
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:23,060
of listen around corners in the days before, it was ten years before we put the first satellite

407
00:33:23,060 --> 00:33:24,060
in orbit.

408
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:26,740
So it's possible it was that kind of dish.

409
00:33:26,740 --> 00:33:31,820
But assuming that that was the real thing at Roswell, there was certainly a lot of mischief

410
00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:37,100
about Aztec with local newspaper reports, particularly local radio stations.

411
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:40,220
Aztec was certainly one of the hoax ones as well.

412
00:33:40,220 --> 00:33:46,220
So whether the hoaxes were built on an actual story of a crash or whether the whole crash

413
00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:51,780
story was virtually a hoax is now, you know, fifty years on very difficult to determine.

414
00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:56,380
And there are proponents of both beliefs in particular in America where they've got certain

415
00:33:56,380 --> 00:34:00,700
witnesses, they claim or claim them, but they're usually the sons or daughters of the witnesses

416
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:02,260
who are no longer alive and so on.

417
00:34:02,260 --> 00:34:04,580
And certain people are pretty convinced it's a hoax.

418
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:09,300
I think the water is so muddy at Roswell and Aztec that we may actually never really know

419
00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:10,700
the truth, frankly.

420
00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:20,700
On December 9th, 1965, a strange object landed in the woods near Kecksburg, a small town

421
00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:23,700
120 miles from Pittsburgh.

422
00:34:23,700 --> 00:34:29,700
After the crash, a handful of volunteers, including firemen, went to the woods to investigate.

423
00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:34,180
They found a bell-shaped object about the size of a compact car.

424
00:34:34,180 --> 00:34:38,500
The Army soon arrived on the scene and told all witnesses to keep quiet about what they

425
00:34:38,700 --> 00:34:40,900
had seen.

426
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:46,020
Under the cover of night, the spacecraft was moved to a secret location.

427
00:34:46,020 --> 00:34:50,580
Just like Roswell, there is no doubt that something landed in Kecksburg, while a handful

428
00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:53,900
of residents swear that it was an alien spacecraft.

429
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:56,900
The Army claims that it was nothing more than a meteorite.

430
00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:00,300
In that case, it wasn't just a matter of hearsay.

431
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,300
There were actual eyewitnesses, including firemen.

432
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:07,300
The situation was like Roswell.

433
00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:12,300
There were several witnesses who seemed to be reliable, telling this story about the

434
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:14,300
object landing in Kecksburg.

435
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:17,300
And their story seemed to be plausible.

436
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:22,300
Something unusual fell from the sky, and the object landed in the woods.

437
00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:25,700
It could have been a Soviet space object.

438
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,700
Or, who knows?

439
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:35,700
According to the descriptions given, if it was of Soviet origin, it certainly wasn't

440
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:38,700
a conventional object.

441
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:43,700
The fact remains that apparently something real was recovered.

442
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:47,700
There was a real object in the sky, and it was a Soviet object.

443
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:51,100
Apparently, something real was recovered.

444
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:55,100
There was a real object in the sky, and it was a Soviet object.

445
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:23,100
With co-author Don Ledger, I've written a book entitled Dark Object.

446
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:29,100
And it's a mass market paperback that tells the story of a UFO crash of the Kurd off the

447
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:33,100
coast, the southern western tip of Nova Scotia in 1967.

448
00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:36,100
It was the night of October 4th, which was a Wednesday.

449
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:38,100
It was a moonless night.

450
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,100
The sky was clear.

451
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:44,100
And what happened was the local residents seen a set of lights.

452
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:47,500
There were at least 60 feet in one dimension.

453
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,500
They were evenly spaced 15 feet apart.

454
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:51,500
They flashed in sequence.

455
00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:55,500
They hovered for at least five minutes over the harbor after entering from an easterly

456
00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,500
direction over the Gulf of Maine.

457
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:02,500
They tilted to a 45-degree angle and descended rapidly to the water surface, striking it,

458
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,500
producing a bright flash on the sound of an explosion.

459
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:09,500
Several local residents called the nearby RCMP detachment.

460
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:13,500
It's interesting to note here that unlike many of the residents, the light was not

461
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:15,900
a light.

462
00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:20,900
They simply said that lights were perhaps an aircraft that crashed into water.

463
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:22,900
Concerns were for survivors.

464
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:26,900
The RCMP dispatched three officers and two separate vehicles to the scene.

465
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:31,900
And when they got to the shoreline, they saw pale yellow light moving over the water.

466
00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:33,900
And it was at least eight feet off the surface.

467
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:37,900
They looked at it through field glasses and eventually it moved around to the point where

468
00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,900
left a trail that was 80 feet by half a mile long.

469
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:44,300
And this was dense yellow foam that smelled of sulfur.

470
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:46,300
It had a sparkle to it.

471
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:49,300
They grabbed two local fishing boats and attempted to reach the impact site.

472
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:52,300
But before they could get to it, the object either submerged or disappeared.

473
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:59,300
There were bubbles at the surface and a strong sulfur smell in the air where the object hit the water.

474
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:05,300
If it was an aircraft, the rescuers would have to act quickly if they wanted to save the survivors.

475
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:10,300
Rescue boats headed south, but they didn't find any wreckage or any debris.

476
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:14,300
They were not sure if they were going to be able to save the survivors.

477
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:20,300
The Royal Canadian Mounting Police was, of course, by the nature of their work, the people who were first to respond to this.

478
00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:25,300
But upon the scene and when they coordinated with the Rescue Coordination Centre

479
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:31,300
on a two nearby military bases, Canadian Forces Station, Shellburn and CFS Barrington at Backrow,

480
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:34,300
it was clear that it wasn't an aircraft.

481
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:37,300
Of course their own observations told them that.

482
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:42,700
They contacted higher headquarters in Ottawa and it was determined at Defense Headquarters

483
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:46,700
that an extensive underwater search would be carried out, which involved the Coast Guard,

484
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:49,700
and naval divers of HMCS Granby.

485
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:54,700
This search continued until Monday that occurred Wednesday night.

486
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:57,700
At that time the search was terminated and they claimed no results.

487
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,700
They never denied the belief that a UFO had gone in the water and they clearly called it that.

488
00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,700
They simply said that they had found nothing.

489
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:09,100
Now what is interesting, however, is that local residents and some documentation does keep the door open.

490
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:12,100
Some people claim artifacts were recovered.

491
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:17,100
And the thing is, we do have a document that says quite clearly who would have received those documents.

492
00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:20,100
It was a civilian scientific consultant at D&D.

493
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:24,100
But again, the official response is, no results.

494
00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:32,100
The incident was forgotten until the early 1990s.

495
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:36,500
When UFO researcher Chris Stiles began searching for official documents

496
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:39,500
written by authorities at the time of the incident,

497
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:43,500
his research soon drew the attention of the producers of sightings,

498
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:47,500
an American TV series about strange and unexplained phenomena.

499
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:55,500
In 1995 Paramount Television's syndicated show Sightings funded an underwater search.

500
00:39:55,500 --> 00:40:00,500
And what it was, was I proposed to them doing a four day survey,

501
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:05,900
which would include side scan sonar, a sub-bottom profiler, magnetometer and divers,

502
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:08,900
to go over the initial impact site of the naval search.

503
00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:13,900
The Canadian Navy and the Coast Guard and RCMP divers searched that area for some time.

504
00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:17,900
They had a firm belief that something had gone into the water.

505
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:22,900
Checking with the rescue coordination center in Halifax, they knew it was clear that there was no missing aircraft.

506
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:25,900
They didn't suspect a median radar natural cause.

507
00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:28,900
The thing was, at that time in 1967,

508
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:33,300
the search for the craft responsible for the crash was a low tech affair.

509
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,300
It would have been pairs of divers going over the side with flashlights.

510
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:39,300
The water visibility was only 20 feet.

511
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,300
But today's technology was relatively simple and cheap to look.

512
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:45,300
I thought it was a long shot that we would find any evidence,

513
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:49,300
but one had to look if it could have been lying down there all that time.

514
00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:52,300
And so we did. We had our four day search with those things.

515
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,300
And to be honest we found absolutely nothing unusual.

516
00:40:55,300 --> 00:40:58,300
But I'm not discouraged by that because that actually tells us something.

517
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:02,700
It was in a case where there was so much corroboration and the actions of the military

518
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:06,700
and the documentation which is an extensive paper trail says clearly they were certain

519
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:09,700
that this was a UFO and that it was lost there.

520
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,700
You have to ask where did the 60 foot object go?

521
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,700
This is shallow water. This technology does not trace. There's no trauma.

522
00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:18,700
No evidence whatsoever.

523
00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:21,700
So it's like the one that got away. It remains a great mystery.

524
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:25,700
Although Shag Harbor remains a mystery,

525
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:30,100
other stories of UFO crashes seem to be hoaxes made up by money mongers.

526
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:34,100
In the summer of 1989,

527
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:38,100
UFO researchers heard of a crash in the Kalahari Desert in South Africa

528
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:40,100
near the Botswana border.

529
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:45,100
According to a report supposedly written by the South African Air Force,

530
00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:47,100
on May 7th, 1989,

531
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,100
the military had shot down an unidentified flying object

532
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:53,100
with an experimental laser gun.

533
00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:56,500
They then captured two humanoid occupants

534
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:00,500
who put up a fight but were eventually taken to an air force base in Pretoria.

535
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:03,500
Then for some odd reason,

536
00:42:03,500 --> 00:42:06,500
the humanoids were flown to the United States.

537
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:11,500
Their last known destination was the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.

538
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:17,500
One of the crash retrievals around the world that didn't happen in America,

539
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:20,500
which is crash retrieval central for most of the UFO phenomena,

540
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:22,900
happened in South Africa,

541
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:24,900
the crash in the Kalahari Desert there.

542
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:27,900
I've not investigated it personally,

543
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:29,900
but I do have a great deal of faith

544
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:31,900
in a researcher in Africa called Cynthia Hind,

545
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,900
unfortunately, who's now died recently.

546
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:35,900
She investigated it first hand,

547
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:37,900
and it was her conclusion that it was probably a hoax.

548
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:40,900
Her view was that actually someone was deliberately manufacturing evidence

549
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:42,900
to make a book, sell a story,

550
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:44,900
get a certificate,

551
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:46,900
and to make a book,

552
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:48,900
and to make a book,

553
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:51,300
sell a story, get a TV series or whatever else.

554
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:56,300
I can't comment on that because I wasn't there

555
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:58,300
and I haven't seen the evidence first hand

556
00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:00,300
and I haven't personally spoken to anybody.

557
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:02,300
But I have a great deal of respect for Cynthia Hind.

558
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:05,300
She was a very strong proponent of UFOs.

559
00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,300
She believed they were aliens.

560
00:43:07,300 --> 00:43:09,300
She believed that they came from other planets and so on,

561
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:11,300
which is not particularly my belief.

562
00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:13,300
Against that background,

563
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:15,300
she was not impressed with that evidence.

564
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:17,700
And I think that to me

565
00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:19,700
gave me a lot of doubts about that case.

566
00:43:19,700 --> 00:43:21,700
Beyond that,

567
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:23,700
I don't have any direct information on that one.

568
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:25,700
One of the suspicious elements raised by Cynthia Hind

569
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:27,700
was the fact that the so-called official report

570
00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:29,700
was written in English rather than in Afrikaans,

571
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:31,700
the official language of Pretoria.

572
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:33,700
She also found it odd that the report was full of spelling errors,

573
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:35,700
and that it mentioned the title squadron leader,

574
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:37,700
which did not exist in the South African army.

575
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,700
It only existed in the South African army.

576
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:41,700
It only existed in the South African army.

577
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:43,700
It only existed in the South African army.

578
00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:46,100
It only existed in the British Royal Air Force.

579
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:48,100
There was also the fact that the document

580
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:50,100
was released to the public

581
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,100
by James Van Groenen,

582
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:54,100
a known con artist.

583
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:56,100
Books are filled with stories of UFO crashes,

584
00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:58,100
and they all have one thing in common.

585
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,100
A lack of physical proof.

586
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:02,100
If alien spaceships have really crashed on our planet,

587
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:04,100
where are they?

588
00:44:04,100 --> 00:44:06,100
Could they be stored in a huge crate

589
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:08,100
in a warehouse

590
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:10,100
among thousands of other crates?

591
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:12,100
A possibility of a crash

592
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:14,500
in the crates.

593
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:16,500
A possibility inspired by the film

594
00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:18,500
Raiders of the Lost Ark.

595
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,500
What about the alien bodies found in Roswell?

596
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:22,500
Where are they?

597
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:24,500
With all of these crashes,

598
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,500
it's hard to believe that the army

599
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:28,500
would have been able to recover every single remnant of proof.

600
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,500
It's also hard to believe

601
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:32,500
that over the years,

602
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:34,500
no military officer

603
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:36,500
has ever attempted to photograph

604
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:38,500
or film one of these shipwreck UFOs.

605
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:40,500
Executions, murders, rapes,

606
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:42,900
and genetic experiments

607
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:44,900
have all been filmed in secret,

608
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:46,900
but no UFO crashes have ever been filmed.

609
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:48,900
There's a saying

610
00:44:48,900 --> 00:44:50,900
that a lack of proof doesn't mean

611
00:44:50,900 --> 00:44:52,900
that something doesn't exist.

612
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:54,900
After all these years,

613
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:56,900
the proof that UFO crashes happen

614
00:44:56,900 --> 00:44:58,900
is so insubstantial,

615
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:00,900
that this saying seems to be more

616
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:02,900
of a consolation for believers

617
00:45:02,900 --> 00:45:04,900
rather than the truth.

618
00:45:40,900 --> 00:46:02,900
The

619
00:46:02,900 --> 00:46:04,900
The

620
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:06,900
The

621
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:08,900
The

622
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:13,700
The

623
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:24,900
The

624
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:27,700
The

625
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:31,700
the

626
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:32,700
Going

627
00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:36,700
to